Antigone's Condemnation

Antigone condemns herself to death at the very beginning of the play. She knows the penalty for burying her brother. Her words and actions make me wonder whether she even wants to get away with it. Even when Ismene promises to keep the deed a secret, Antigone tells her to spread the news to everyone. This brings about the question of her motives. I believe that she has deep faith in God and she is eager to move on to the afterlife. This faith also creates her severe desire to bury her brother. Another motive surfaces when she is talking to Ismene at the beginning of the play. After Ismene expresses the importance of obeying civil law, Antigone asks her how she can even stand to live in this world so filled with evil. This shows that she yearns to escape this life and the corruption associated with it. One more possible motive that I observed deals with honor, pride and reputation. Antigone says that if she has to she will die before her time because she does not fear death. By dying young with all of the people on her side, she turns herself into an idol. No woman has ever died the way she was sentenced and her bravery awed all those around her. From the very first lines of the play the audience is able to see that Antigone’s death is eminent and she welcomes this fate.

thier after me lucky charms

When I started reading I had expected Creon to have the same reasonable thinking and wiseness as he had displayed in Oedipus, it didn't really hit me how much of a character change he had undergone until i got to the part when he is charging Antigone with burying the body and accuses her of just being after his throne, (1437). This just shocked me because in Oedipus he had explained why he was more benificial to control the throne as Creon instead of being a king, and now he accuses Antigone and Ismene of attempting to overthrow him, that just seems hypocritical. I think however this is a result of what he had explained to Odepius, when he was being reasonable, as a king, you must always watch out for the persons who will try and stab you in your sleep. Either this new blindness (hmmmm) is due to his new gain to power, or his fear of not being overthrown, but moreso being killed, which in the end he does achieve this because he loses all those that are dear to him and all that are left are the guards, which insure he is safe.
On another note, I enojoyed on the previews page (1436) when Creon calls Antigone "deaf to reason" because (in this story) that seems exactly how he acts.

Same story??

Is it just me or do the two stories of Oedipus and Antigone appear to be very similar? Many of the characters in Antigone seem to resemble those in Oedipus. A few other people have already mentioned Creon becoming eerily similar to the way Oedipus was when he was king. Both become to full of themselves and feel they are by far superior to everyone around them in not only rank but also knowledge. I also believe that Haimon is much like the old Creon as Adam stated. They both honored and respected their king, but when it came down to it they spoke out for what they thought was right. I then felt that Jocasta and Ismene are similar to a point. Both of these characters try and protect the main characters, Oedipus and Antigone, but cannot get them to change their mind. The sequence in both plays also appeared very similar to me. Both start out with a town that recently got a new king who is becoming too full of himself. The towns are also in a crisis at the time, Oedipus trying to figure out how to find the murderer of Laius and Creon proclaiming what he has decided to do with the two brothers who died. Each king begins to gradually lose support of their decision from the city and become very hot-tempered. They have too much pride to admit they are wrong even when the great prophet Teiresias, who is my favorite character, prophesizes the future for them. Both kings doubt him although he is said to have never been wrong. Finally, the plays end with the kind being proved wrong and many lives being taken, many by suicide. In my opinion these plays were very similar and it was easy for me to predict what would happen next and I thought it was very obvious that Eurydice would take her life at the end much in the same way Jocasta did after hearing about all the terrible deaths that had taken place.

Head Strong to Head Case

What happened to Creon from Oedipus to Antigone? In Oedipus, he was the guy who wanted nothing to do with the throne. Was always seeking advice from the Gods, elders, etc., and also giving it to Oedipus or anyone else who needed it. Even when Oedipus loses his temper and falsely accuses Creon, Creon remains calm and attempts to reason with Oedipus. In this first story, he was the guy that everyone liked and was pleased with.
Now we jump to Antigone. In this story Creon appears to be Oedipus 2.0. He goes against the Gods by not allowing Polyneices to be buried or have any type of ceremony for his death. By doing this he is having no respect for the dead. He also refuses to listen to his son Haimon or any of the elders on the issue of Antigone's death sentence. He seems very power hungry, arrogant, and proud, all three characteristics he never showed before taking the throne. Some of the citizens of the state are upset with his actions as ruler because he is at times unjust and disrespectful. Creon has gone from a once level headed, well liked, caring man of royalty to a high tempered, questioned, heartless ruler. This is a change that must have been influenced by the pressure he feels from the responsibility as king. Perhaps he knew this would happen, and this is why he never wanted the throne in the first place.

To much pride

I'm going to have to agree with Andrew in the sense that Creon and Anitgone both created their own downfalls. It is clear by the end of the story that everything would have worked out just fine if the two had not been so stubborn in their own thinking. Although they both did what they believed was right, they left no room for people to tell them otherwise. When Creon's judgment was questioned he became more angry and lashed out at the person who had questioned him. This ultimately led to the death of Antigone, Haimon, and Eurydice (everyone that Creon had cared about). In Antigone's case she did what she thought was right, but pushed her act to far when she practically called Creon blind and ignorant for not seeing that his judgment had been wrong. She became to caught up in proving Creon wrong that she lost track of her main purpose of restoring dignity to her brother, and instead she put the attention on her and her own pride. I think the story teaches the reader that sometimes you need to forget about your own pride and listen to other's advice in order to keep peace and happiness.

Faith of the gods

I see that both Oedipus and Antigone are the same base on fact of what Mary wrote about, “they have no control over their faith.” They both tried to challenge the gods. Oedipus tried to ran away from the killing his father and being with his mother and where did that put him, killing his father and having two daughters with his father (awkward). Creon challenged Teiresias prophecy about burying his brother and releasing Antigone. Both men had power and thought that they do anything. They believe that what ever they said was their way, but the men were under the watch of the gods. What shocks me the most is how Creon, above all people, did not think about his consequences. We know that Creon is very reasonable man and knew better then to face the gods from Oedipus but it goes to show you “power will corrupt the mind.” I think if we read anymore Greek plays that have tragic heroes, we will find someway how the tragic hero will fall at the mercy of the gods.

Creon and Antigone: Excessiveness

Both Creon and Antigone met their downfalls as a result of excessive belief in their own correctness. Anitgone’s defiance of the law to bury her brother was justified, but she took it too far in Scene 2 when she began to question not only the sense of Creon’s decree for Polyneices, but the legitimacy of his reign and the support for him. She said that those around Creon all were against him, but just restrained themselves. Antigone turned her righteous act into an anti-Creon psyche and lost her sense of the original purpose. Whether this resulted from hidden feelings about the relationship between Creon and her father/brother or from other reasons, this flaw caused Antigone to lose the full tragic heroine label because she began to turn the situation into something less noble than the original intent of putting a brother to rest.

Creon had a noble purpose in his actions because he wanted to protect the city and prevent mutiny for the future by using Polyneices as an example. He held to his intent too much and refused to listen to reason. As his son, Haimon, said, “It is not reason never to yield to reason!” (pg. 1441, line 79) Creon used reason to know that traitors must be punished to prevent further incidents, but he refused to acknowledge that his reason was flawed. He spent pages 1439-1440 ranting about how sons should yield to the reason of their fathers and rulers to justify himself. He could not admit that he was wrong and refused to listen to anything other than his own words. His flaw caused him to lose all that was dear to him and presents his situation as a tragic character because his flaw of hubris caused him to lose everything. The complexity lies in that his hubris that made him a tragic character caused the downfall and tragedy of another character, Antigone, resulting in a situation with two tragic heros/heroines. Creon, however, was humbled by his downfall, while Antigone remained steadfast in herself and wallowed in self-pity until death. Therefore, I believe that both Antigone and Creon are tragic characters because their respective flaws of the self-righteousness, which Nick discussed, caused their downfalls. Between the two, Creon was a truer tragedy because he was humbled by the gods to prove the point that several blogs have discussed, which is that the gods control fate and always win.

Creon:: Oh the Perils of Power!

I can definitely see where Elspeth and Adam are coming from with Creon!! That was the first thing I noticed when I started reading the play! Creon reminds me more and more of Oedipus every time he opens his mouth! Once he took the throne he became a completely different person. Out were the cool personality and the fairness (wiseness?) that he once possessed and that we admired and in was a quick tempered, self-conscious and power hungry king. He even accused Oedipus’ daughters/sisters of trying to take his throne. Something that Oedipus accused him of doing in the past. I think the point of the change in the character of Oedipus was to show the effect of power on characters. The wise character was did a 180 turn once he acquire any power what so ever. I also saw a connection between the personalities of Oedipus and Antigone and the comparison of Ismene with the old Creon. I can definitely see some comparison with those pairs. I think that the author did this to accentuate the character of Creon and Antigone and the conflict between them! Well my respect for Creon has now disappeared!

Creon: An Overreaction?

Creon is more like Oedipus than I ever thought possible. Creon’s character completely changed when he took the throne. Creon always appeared to be level-headed and in control of himself but all of that self control appears to be shattered in “Antigone.” I think that Creon’s response to Antigone honoring her deceased brother’s body was a complete and total overreaction. As soon as Creon became king he went on the defense and started passing edicts right and left. He was only doing this to impose control over the people which was really dumb because, as we know from “Oedipus”, the people actually really liked Creon. Creon’s treatment of Antigone was utterly repulsive! He showed her no respect and was only looking out for himself when he basically sentenced her to death. As it turns out, Creon was the one who was punished in the end. Perhaps the gods believed in karma? As you can tell I know virtually nothing about Greek gods or I would go into a long spiel about why “Antigone” ended the way that it did. However, Creon definitely deserved what he got and if he had only looked at how Oedipus’s pride had gotten in the way he might have spared many lives a terrible end, including his own.

The Last Speech of Antigone

V (75-81)

Thebes, you see me now, the last
Unhappy daughter of a line of kings,
Your kings, led away to death. You will remember
What things I suffer, and at what men's hands,
Because I would not transgress the laws of heaven
(To the guards, simply.) Come: Let us wait no longer

With such a separation of human and god in Antigone, I find it interesting that each character seems to have a stance on how they approach the world they live in regarding law and how to follow it. Creon believes in human law, mostly because he can make it himself and control the people of Thebes through his rule (he is against money because he has no control over the free will people have with it). Antigone believes more in god law, claiming that Zeus would have preferred the burial and that Hades could potentially save her from being buried alive. Ismene stands in the middle, seeing both sides while feeling insecure/unsure how to handle the situation to come out with her best interests. In her last speech, Antigone yearns for the Gods to prove to Creon that he is wrong in his ruling/decisions, and that they should approve of Antigone's action. These characters place so much emphasis on who is "right", that they lost sight and three end up dead by suicide. Maybe being right isn't always as important as it seems.

More on the Chorus

I definitely agree with Matt that the third suicide was overkill. I don’t agree, however, that the Chorus is pointless. If you read closely into the chorus parts, you can see how each of the Odes foreshadows the events of the play. Ode I talks about how wonderful man is that he can conquer animals, use his skills to make tools, etc. Although man can conquer many things, he cannot conquer death. Ode II is about how the gods can be terrible to people when they do bad things and that, “Fate words most for woe/ With Folly’s fairest show.” I think this means that the gods determine fate and that fate usually ends up making life terrible for people. Ode III says that nobody can conquer love. Ode VI says more about destiny and gives specific examples of a lot of people who were locked away in stone prisons or killed for various reasons. When you read each of these Odes, you can easily see the foreshadowing that each Ode brings. Ode III foreshadows that somebody (Haimon) will be destroyed because he cannot conquer love. Odes II & IV show the importance of fate in how this play turns out. Ode IV also shows what will happen to Antigone. Although these Odes may seem to reiterate what those of us reading the play already know, they help to foreshadow the events of the play for an audience that is unfamiliar with the story.

As far as the thing about Antigone being the tragic hero, I always thought that was Creon. He is the one left to suffer at the end of the story while the other characters were else relieved of their suffering. It is his hubris that leads to the death of Antigone, Haimon, and Eurydice. I don’t think Antigone had a fault that led to the downfall in this play. She buried her brother, but she was doing that to bring honor to her brother and save Thebes from a plague, not to be arrogant as others have suggested. By not letting Ismene be killed, Antigone was trying to save her innocent sister, not be pitiful. That’s what I think, anyway.

Pawns of the gods

For some reason i can't shake the feeling that Antigone didn't play a very large role in this play that is so aptly titled 'Antigone'. Huh, maybe I'm just weird? I merely felt Oedipus played a bigger role in his play...that's all.

Anyways, onto my only point I want to make about these two plays. I feel that, in a nutshell, both 'Oedipus' and 'Antigone' can be summed up in the final lines of 'Antigone' made by Choragos, "There is no happiness where there is no wisdom; no wisdom but in submission to the gods." Basically, obey the gods, you can't change fate. Has anyone ever seen 'Jason and the Argonauts'? Well, anways, it's about Greek mythology and junk. It's awesome. But the one scene I love in it involves how the gods are toying with Jason and his men as they try to find the Golden Fleece for some reason...I haven't seen it in awhile. Regardless, my interest is in one scene only. In it, the gods are playing some sort of game with a map of the world and pieces that are represntative of people.

Here is the scene:


This is pretty much the basis of these plays. We are all pawns of the gods in this cosmic game called fate. Who are we, mere mortals, to stand before the might and power of the gods? According to these plays, we can't. Oedipus was fated by the gods to slay his father and sleep with his mother. Nothing could change that. Teiresias reveals to Creon that he should ahve burried the body of Polyneices. Disobeying led to his downfall. Basically, I feel that these plays stand to show the Greek ideals of obeying the gods and of always listening to reason (which just so happens to be what the gods say). So in the end, there is 'no wisdom but in submission to the gods.'

Personality Shift?

After reading this play I was shocked to see such a change in Creon's personality. I pretty much was like is this the same guy? What happened to his leval head and reasonable thinking? He seemed to react and respond alot with his emotion especially when he felt he was being diobeyed or people were being unloyal. Like when Antogone didn't deny the accusations and when his servant person did. Another example is when his son threatned him with his own life if he did not spare his fiance's life. I thought it was totally interesting how his mindset and emotion overpowered his leval head and reasonable thinking once he took the crown. He turns to be more like Oedipus than i thought.

Overkill with Eurydice & More

I’m with you Mary, I see the Chorus as nothing more than an unnecessary, annoying break in the action (after awhile, I just skipped over the Chorus parts). It’s my opinion that the Chorus doesn’t tell you anything you don’t already know, and as such, is entirely useless. And I agree with you Adam, all of that kingly power has definitely gone to Creon’s head. He’s acting as stubborn and as irrational as his incestuous predecessor. By the way, did anyone think that adding Eurydice to the play was (dare I say) “overkill”? I mean she enters in the last scene of the play only to hear what’s happened to Antigone and Haimon before immediately proceeding to kill herself. I think two suicides would have been plenty for one play, but apparently Sophocles found some value in adding a third (I certainly didn’t). Perhaps this third suicide was meant to hit a little closer to home for King Creon? One could make the argument, but surely the suicides of his daughter-in-law and son were heart-wrenching enough. Lastly, I was disappointed to again see Sophocles using third person narration for crucial, vital moments. Having a sentry tell us of the three suicides just didn’t do it for me. There’s no suspense or drama when I’m only told of three suicides instead of shown them. The way I see it, it’s already happened and I’ve missed all the action. Where’s the suspense in that?

Creon, what happened?

Ok, so after reading Oedipus I was a pretty big Creon fan. I mean, this guy took a tongue lashing from Oedipus and was publicly humiliated, so I felt pretty bad for him. Beyond all of this was the fact that he was calm throughout and did lash out at Oedipus. He was a subservient man that knew he was in the right and decided to just accept things and let fate handle the rest. After Oedipus' past comes to light, Creon is the first to attempt to hurry Oedipus inside to save him embarrassment, he also wishes to consult the gods and not be rash in exiling Creon. He was a very good guy, and ended up receiving the throne. Message: Good guys will be rewarded in the end.
Now we move on to Antigone. Creon has become the bad guy. Apparently he went against the gods in saying that Polyneices should not be buried. If Greeks should learn anything from these plays, it is that the gods always win. He is quick to anger, first threatening the life of the sentry, and then condemning Antigone. He even went so far as to proclaim a death sentence on Ismene. He was strong-headed and refused to consult others. Haimon tried to talk some sense into him, but he would not have it. Creon has become the "Oedipus", and Haimon is our new "Creon". Creon has all of the hubris of Oedipus, and is quick to anger, rash, and strong-headed just as his predecessor. What has happened to our Creon? Could it be that the responsibilities of the kingship ruins a person? Too much power in the hands of someone that is not fit for the job? Regardless, Creon's mistakes were costly. He lost many loved ones, and had no one to blame but himself. Granted, I don't understand why so much innocent blood had to be shed, but let the gods do their thing. All that I can think about is how drastically Creon has changed.

The Chorus

(Nick your blog was great! I noticed that reference and I wondered about her story. Thanks for clearing it up and since you did so well I’m going to go ahead and talk about something else.) The chorus is something in these plays I do not understand. We talked about how they are the people’s reactions but sometimes they go off into rants. The chorus, after Antigone is taken away and her last lines, begins normal. It references the future tomb of Antigone. Then it turns into these mythical three paragraphs. There are three footnotes in these paragraphs. I do not understand what the meaning of the paragraphs. I could not even relate them to the story. It talks of multiple gods I believe ending with the tomb again. I just think it is very confusing, I could make nothing of it and if anyone else notices it an explanation would be greatly appreciated.

Antigone: self-righteous and pitiable

Like father, like daughter? or is it more like brother, like sister? See how complicated and chaotic things get when incest is involved? Anyway, similariies between Oedipus and Antigone. There are a lot. Mostly, hubris. They've both got a lot of hubris. However, they have different varieties of hubris. Oedipus is full of hubris in his skills: skills at leading, solving riddles etc. Antigone's hubris is wrapped up in self-righteousness. What really struck me is her self-comparison to Niobe. The text has a footnote that explains the Niobe myth, but it misses some things. The reason Niobe's children were killed was that she boasted that she was more of a woman than Leto, a goddess, because she had more children than Leto. The gods killed her kids and had Niobe cry until she turned to stone. Not only does the stone foreshadow Antigone's stone prison, but in some accounts of the myth Niobe hung herself. Either way, Antigone was extremely proud, just like Niobe, but she doesn't mention Niobe's pride. But was it wrong that she knew that she was right? I think the part where her righteousness crossed over from good to bad is when she rebuked Ismene. In that exchange, I got the impression that Antigone wanted to be a sacrifice. She wouldn't let Ismene join her. Antigone had to be the sole victim. She enjoys wallowing in self pity veiled in self-righteousness. You know what I'm talking about- she likes playing the poor victim. We all know people like that. I don't know if I consider Antigone a good character or a bad character. She seems more like a pitiable character. Wait, there's that magic word, pity. So I guess it works out as a tragedy in the end.

Elspeth N.

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Taylor, I removed this post. You had it in your comment link already. Mr. V.

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